42. Touching creative source w/ Jackie Amsden

Have you had that moment when your words flow effortlessly onto the page and what you write completely surprises and delights you? 

Joining today’s conversation is Jackie Amsden, an indie comedy author, podcaster, and mom of two. In today’s episode, you’ll hear about how tapping into creative space helped Jackie reconcile her struggle with becoming a mother and the loneliness she felt throughout that transition. 

You’ll learn why a writing habit doesn’t have to be done a certain way and how having kids can make our creativity more efficient. Tune in to also find out how Jackie has began reshaping the identity of mom through her writing.

Topics discussed in this episode: 

• Feeling alone a new mom who also writes
• How Jackie thought writing had to be done, before having kids
• Tapping into that creative space and feeding the soul
• How passion and motivation change after becoming a parent
• How to not forget your creativity
• Using writing to play with the identity of mom and reshaping it
• Jackie’s desire to connect with more writers
• Using podcasts to connect with specific communities
• Favorite books 
• BONUS: Using Fancy Nancy as an example for a strong voice
• BONUS: Advice on digging deeper into why you’re not writing

About Jackie: 

Jackie Amsden is an indie comedy author and host of These Mums Write podcast. She is currently working on a MomCom about a stay-at-home mom who needs to pretend to be an ex-con to get a job.

She has children, ages 6 and 13, who provide an endless source of hilarious one-liners and also a great deal of lower back pain. She lives in Vancouver, the Canadian one.

Connect w/ Jackie:

• Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jackieamsden 
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jackieamsden/

Books and resources discussed during the show: 

• Big Magic: Creative Living Beyond Fear, by Elizabeth Gilbert
• You Are a Badass: How to Stop Doubting Your Greatness and Start Living an Awesome Life, by Jen Sincero
• Midlife Bites: Anyone Else Falling Apart, Or Is It Just Me?, by Jen Mann
• Welcome to the Neighborhood, by Lisa Roe
• Confessions of a Forty-Something F##k Up, by Alexandra Potter
• The Wayside School series, by Louis Sachar
• Pinkalicious series, by Victoria and Elizabeth Kann
• Fancy Nancy, by Jane O’Connor

READY TO TAKE YOUR WRITING FURTHER? 

Join our Patreon community and access our vibrant Discord writing group to get writing prompts, participate in sprints, download free resources, and more: 
https://www.patreon.com/erinptcanningeditor

Transcript

0:00

Have you had that moment when your words flow effortlessly onto the page and what you write completely surprises and delights you? In today's episode, you'll hear about why people thrive when tapping into that creative space and how doing so restores us. You'll also learn why a writing habit doesn't have to be done a certain way and how having kids can make our creativity more efficient./ Welcome to Parents Who Write, the podcast that helps parents pursue their writing dreams. I'm your host, Erin P.T. Canning. I'm a mom of two young boys, a writer, editor, and writing coach. My mission is to help you regularly make time for your writing, find your voice again, and confidently share your stories so that you can own your identity as a writer and be a happier, more patient parent. Welcome to another episode of Parents Who Write. Today I am joined by Jackie Amsden, who is an indie comedy author and a fellow podcaster. She has two children, ages six and 13, and lives in Vancouver, the Canadian one. Jackie, thank you so much for joining me on the show today. How are you doing? I am great, Erin. Thanks for asking. How are you? I'm doing well, thank you. It's Friday, and I made it through the week. That's all we can ask. It's been a bit challenging. I tend to take on too much work is what I am starting to realize again. Moms do that. Yeah. Pretty much. But we're not here to talk about me today. We are here to talk about you. So can you please tell us a bit about your writing journey before having kids? Sure. I would love to, Erin. I think, one of the first thoughts that I had when I pushed my son out of my body and they gave him to me was, "Holy crap. He came three weeks early. There goes my writing time." Because I had taken time off work early to accommodate, okay, let's get this done. And then he came literally the day after I stopped working. So I feel like for me, as soon as I had my first child, I really thought that writing was gonna be so much harder and that basically it was over. Wow. And it was something I struggled with for a long time, and I did find time for sure to write and nap times and kid swaps. And I was definitely that mom at baby gym who was like, Hey, how's it going? Hi, how are you? Do you wanna trade babies? They were like whoa, lady, I don't even, no. I don't trust you. I don't know you. But I just really was always like searching for opportunities to write, and I felt very alone in that pursuit. Like I said, I didn't find, I never found a mom who was like, yes, I want to write also. I felt like often it would be people that were somewhat reluctant to entrust their tiny human with a stranger, or they just didn't really see the need to have that time that I was so desperately seeking. And I think in hindsight, like that was actually really isolating for me because I felt like that wanting to get away from my kid meant there was something wrong with me. But I still did it just with less gusto maybe than I might have otherwise. But I think that was like my first introduction to motherhood was like always wanting to write, and really structuring my time with my son around like, How can I wear this little guy down so I can have time to write while he's napping? That was how I survived. Maybe that was good for me. Maybe that's what I needed. But now that I'm like, he's a teenager, like holy, what I realized how far that I've come and seen kids and writing as being like at this tension point. And I realize where I'm at now is different, that you can be a mom, you can be a parent, and you can still want to write, and that's awesome. And there's nothing wrong with you. So fun. Side note, I completely empathize with that. I had a different situation with my first kiddo that involved a hospitalization and partial bedrest. But my second kiddo, I gave myself 10 days of vacation prior to my delivery date. And like you said, the day after I stopped working, my second kiddo came. I was supposed to just sit down and relax for 10 days. And he was like, Nope, I'm come tonight, mama.

And he came at 11: 4:32

30 at night. And so we didn't sleep that night until the next day, and my husband and I were shattered. Like we were beyond exhausted plus a toddler. And, so I utterly and completely empathize with that feeling. I still joke around with my kiddo. I'm like, you owe me 10 days. I know. I used to say that all the time. I'm like, you don't get that time back. That three weeks. Like I'm never getting that back. Right? Oh my gosh. I love that. But tell me about your writing journey before having kids. What was your writing life before that moment? It was really focused. I was working on this novel, which I eventually finished many years later. Took me a while. But I was working part-time actually. I worked three days in like a corporate job, and then I had two days just to write, and I was like so spoiled for time. But I had carved out that around writing, right? Okay, here's my steady day job to pay for my bills, and then I will have two full days of writing. And that's how I thought writing needed to be done because I was a dummy 20 year old. And so, in my mind, you know, writing was executed in these long stretches of time alone, and that's the only way to be done. But I think one of the things I've learned from being a mom and talking to moms and just writing is that actually, having those time constraints and having the crazy chaos and messiness of life can actually fuel your writing because, okay, yes. Like I said, those three weeks, I'm never getting back. But that whole manuscript took way longer than it needed to be. Probably all of the words I would've written in those three weeks, I would've needed to cut later because I didn't even know what I was doing. I was pantsing it and had no idea how to write a novel. So I just was writing off in these million different directions all the time, which is why it took me 10 years to write a novel. And I know again, from my guests, that they have written similar length novel in six weeks. Isn't that impressive? That is a lesson that I have learned later on in life also. I started writing my first novel when I was doing my Masters in Creative Writing and in my workshops I would do like one chapter at a time. And then we would workshop and talk about it. And it was fantastic, the lessons that I was gaining, but the progression in the novel itself was so painfully slow looking back on it. And, fun side note, that was also then when I was pregnant with my first child. So I thought that, oh, well once I have my first child and I finished with this program, I'll have tons of time during maternity leave to finish my book. Yeah, no. No, my writing completely fell to the side when I had my first kid. But yeah, fast forward six years with the craziness of now two kids, and I've learned how to streamline my ideas. And I don't know, it's just clicked somehow. All of my experiences coming together and the pressure of time. And one of my professors, he said, constraint encourages creativity. Whereas when you have the endless time and endless space, you wander too much. I agree wholeheartedly. Yeah. So why do you write and why is this something that you have to do? I just read this Elizabeth Gilbert's book Big Magic, and she talks a lot about creativity. And I love this idea. She talks about as humans being innately creative and all of us, we writers, we think we're special and maybe we are a little bit, but I think all humans have this desire to create, and it can look different in different contexts. It could be something that we don't traditionally classify as art, but it's still creating something, sports even, or like building things with tool things. And I feel like for me, it's writing. And it could change, and that's the thing with creative people, it does change and that's fine too. But writing for me has always been my first outlet for creating things, and there is such a joy. Like I do have a day job, and so I'm doing stuff there. But like at the end of the day, the thing that I reflect on when I'm going to sleep is not the communication plan or the email that I sent from my corporate day job. It's that thing I created in my manuscript that like, "Really got that scene good." And that's because that's me creating. And I do feel that it's very special when it's something that we, ourselves is coming from our sole place, which I think is why it's a bit different than when I'm working in my corporate day job. This is where I feel that creative space, where I feel like I'm tapping into source. And that's I feel like such a soul feeding activity that even if my novel didn't get published, it brings me happiness in a day-to-day. Yeah. I appreciate that so much because I agree, I feel refreshed after I'm done writing. Especially I spend a good portion of my day daydreaming about my writing. Yeah. Right? And then I finally get to sit down and write, and then the words just flow onto the page at that point, because I've daydreamed, especially a scene over and over again until the point where I'm like, yes, that's exactly what I wanna capture. And then I sit down to write, and I'm like, all right, I'm ready to do this. And it is, it's just, it's so exciting to be able to create something from nothing. So, has your passion, your motivation for writing, changed over the years, especially after becoming a parent? Yeah, totally. I think, my first novel was about, it's like a young adult fiction set in Japan. It's a mystery thriller. And it's about, you know, when I was a teenager, I was in the Japanese fashion industry, and so I felt like I really wanted to tell that story. And so this is the story that came out. And it was good. It's just a story and experience that had to come out. But my writing now is about being a mom and it's about being like a 40 year old woman, and I feel like that is totally a result of just the experience that I've had. And, so I don't feel like I could be writing what I'm writing now if I hadn't had the experience of being a mom and, it's almost also about struggling with that identity of mom hood, which I think is something that was a challenge for me at first because we're women and then we have babies, and now we're moms, and it feels like that a lot is taken from our identity when we take that new one on. And so that's what my writing is about now, but in a comedic way because I just can't take things too seriously. It makes my brain hurt. Yes. Yeah, I struggled with my identity after becoming a parent as well. In fact, here's something new that I have never shared on the podcast before. So my first little guy, complications with pregnancy, IUGR, interdisciplinary and growth restriction issues, hence the bedrest and whatnot. So he was three and a half pounds when he was born. Wow. And, so he's my little NICU guy. And I couldn't nurse him. They wanted me to nurse him. I wanted to try nursing. Especially with him being so little, I wanted to give him what I could. But he couldn't latch properly. And then even when I did manage to get him to drink the milk, we still had to fortify it with formula to try to bulk him up more and more. And then because he wasn't nursing, I was pumping most of the time. So I just, I could never get my supply up. And I remember sitting on the sofa, strapped in, pumping away for 45 minutes because I'm just trying to get what I can, mimicking cluster feeding and whatnot. And my little guy is in the bouncer seat, and he's crying. I can't get to him cuz I'm strapped in. Finally, that all comes off. Now I have to actually feed him with a bottle, then I have to go clean the parts. And by the time all of that was done, it was like time for me to start pumping again. And I just sat there in the chair after six weeks, and I turned to my husband and I said, I feel like I am nothing more than a milking cow. That's it. That's all that I am right now, is a milking cow. And my depression magnified during that time. And I told my husband that I, I needed to stop with the pumping and everything. And I love him because he was like, absolutely, like it's not a problem. And when I stopped, I sobbed hysterically cuz I was like, I'm a failure as a mom and I've got this little guy and I can't give him what he needs. And I felt so horrible. And then two days later, I was the happiest I had ever been. Like I could actually feel joy and enjoy being with my baby and not trying to get milk all the time out of my body. So, that was just, that was one of my identity moments of I am nothing more than a milking cow. Yeah. It's terrifying becoming a mother. Absolutely. When you walk out of that door with that little person, It's from the hospital into your house and you're like oh, this is all on us. Right? So you're like what if he stops breathing? Should I be watching him? Should I keep, should I make sure he keeps breathing all night long? It's like every bit of their life you suddenly feel like is dependent on you in a way that you've never ever had to deal with as a individual person before. And it's traumatic. And I think it's important for parents listening, if you have a young child, to understand that you may just need to survive. And right now, and that's fine because writing will be there for you. And some people have these blessed babies, and they, they're just bursting with life and they're little chubby babies that they can sleep through the night and la la la. And so maybe for you, you can write right away, but I feel like if that's not your experience, that's totally understandable too. Cuz I also had that experience of a, not as, not three pounds, but a premature baby. It just, it really sends you into the state of like flight and terror and you're full of hormones already, and then it just is hard to recover from that because there is no time to recover. Yeah. they're babies, right? They're just all around 24 hours around the clock. Yeah. Oh my God. I'm so glad I don't have a newborn baby. I know my seven-year-old asked me, he's like, mama, can we have another baby in the house? And I was like, I wish that I could just magic it into being and then also like magic it to sleep for eight hours, and you know. But we were like, sweetheart, you have no idea what you're actually asking right now, so I will live vicariously through you when you decide to produce another human in the future. Thank you. So when we spoke previous, you mentioned the magic of creativity and that we should never forget that. Why? I think, when you write or produce other kinds of arts, you're tapping into this source that is incredible and magical. And if you read that book Big Magic, she really paints that picture about how much magic is in the creative process. Because we don't know where ideas come from. It's beyond us, and that's why it's so exciting is that I can think of an idea like we talked about, and I think it's important to keep touching the story once a day because then you have it like, like you mentioned, that it's playing in the back of your mind when you're having a bath or whatever, and you can work through those things and you get a sense. But when you actually sit down to get it out, that's when you're really touching source. And there is magic there because things come out that I did not anticipate. And maybe, you know, that is the big difference between like my day job where I'm like organizing things, and I'm moving projects ahead, and it's all very expected. Of course, I have to deal with problems or whatever, but it's not, there's no magic in it because there's no experience of that unexpected delight that comes from something a character says that totally is hilarious or amazing and you had no idea that you were gonna write that. And I feel like that is the magic of creativity. And ChatGPT, we mentioned earlier off air, is a big thing right now because it writes for you. But what it will never be able to replicate is that fundamental need for humans to engage with creative source, whatever you wanna call it. There's magic in them hills. Yeah. I love that moment when a character does something or says something, and you're like, what just happened? Where did that come from? Oh, it's such an amazing moment. Yeah, that was when my character decided to run away into a cave system and get lost. And I was like, what? How am I getting you out? And I'm like, thank you for literally putting yourself in a corner. I had some fun trying to figure out how to get her out of the cave, and I love what came out of it actually. Yeah. So fun, fun times. Love when characters come alive like that. Totally. What tips do you have to encourage others to not forget their creativity? A big thing is giving yourself permission to engage in writing in, whatever form that means to you. And don't get hung up on a specific practice. Like I said, for myself, in my twenties, yeah, I could have entire days plus the weekend, right? Because I had four to seven days I could just write essentially. Man. But that's not always gonna be the case, and I think that we all need to recognize that writing can happen in tiny little increments. Some people stay up. I've talked to moms that write between 9:00 PM and 2:00 AM. That's me. Okay. That's impressive. I am the mom that gets up.

I get up now at 4: 18:56

30 to write, and for some moms that seems insane. And it did seem insane to me at first, but I just started with, well try

start at 5: 19:05

30, then I'll try five. It works, right? But I never would've thought in a million years, and I think we need to let go of our preconceived notion of what writing needs to look like. Because if it's just you talking in a dictation system as you're picking up the kids, great. Whatever works for you, just keep returning to that creative space. And I think as long as you feel that you've touched that creative magic, and we know when we've touched it. Think about the idea of flow. I think that for me really resonates. As long as you can get into that flow state, you're not only moving your project forward, but that actually is the foundation of authentic happiness, right? And there's lots written on this. We can engage in things that are pleasurable, which give us joy, but that foundational happiness is built through engaging with flow state. So find times in your life to build in that flow state. Even if it's 10 or 20 minutes, yeah, especially if you've been daydreaming about it all day. I think you've only got a 10 minute window. It's like I can get a lot out in 10 minutes because Totally. Get it out. And, but also, and this is where it gets tricky, but recognize that if you just really don't have the space because you're in that early stage of parenting, then that's fine too. But Yeah. I bet most of our listeners, like if they're listening to your show, they've probably come up for air. If they can find their way to a podcast, they're probably ready to find time in their lives to write. I agree. I feel like we're helping to nurture the seed that has already been sowed. So how does being a mom fuel your creativity? You know, as I mentioned that the novel I'm working on right now is called is a Mom-Com, which is a relatively new genre, mom comedy, very similar to a Rom-Com, but just with more mom and less rom. And so for me, it's, like, at this core of what I do. And, it's really because as I mentioned earlier when I first had my, first my son, it just was a identity that I struggled with. I wanted a baby, but I didn't wanna be like a mom of the pram and short haircut. And I don't know, it's just that we have so much that's associated with that mom identity. And so for a long time I didn't wanna write about anything to do with kids and being a mom, but I feel like now that I'm finally embracing that and leaning into it, I'm like, oh, actually, you know what? Not wanting to be a mom is exactly what I should be writing about. And that's been a real source of inspiration for me, is a character that is a mom, but is acting like a child. Huh? And so I think, of course it's gonna depend on your genre, but I feel like there's a lot of room to play with the identity of mom and reshaping it. Yeah. I love your comment about how being a mom meant you needed to have short hair. Cuz I thought the exact same thing, and I was like, but I don't wanna cut my hair. As you can see, it's still really long. I'm, due for a haircut but a trim. But otherwise, yes. in fact, when the pandemic hit, I grew it even longer. Cuz I told my husband like, well, I feel like I'm not that far away from gray hair, so let me go like mermaid long with my curls. And so, but yeah, reshaping the idea of what it means to be a mom. I love that. That's fantastic. I feel like I'm proud of the work that you and I and other parents out there are doing to help contribute to that every day. Yeah. So as a parent who writes, what do you secretly desire most? I think this has come to me lately, is actually more interaction with people with my work. And so, I've actually, I'm taking standup comedy class right now, which is terrifying, but also really meeting that need. I feel like I guess I should have critiqued group. And I used to really love that part of the writing process. But I'm exploring this other way of doing that, which is through standup comedy because I'm just really, I love that part of the writing process is when you work on something and then you share it and you get feedback on it in a live experience. And I think that may be also like, some pandemic blowback is, we all went inside. And what I'm really craving right now is like I wanna share my work with people, you know, especially cuz I'm writing comedy, I'm like do other people like, this is funny. I think this is funny, but maybe it's not. I don't even know because I am just staring in the bathroom mirror right now. So, so that's something I'm really craving. And I found a way to get that need met through taking these classes. But I definitely encourage other moms, other to find a critique group because I've, I've always found that just like such an exhilarating experience is sharing my work in a critique setting. And then you get that feedback and you're like, oh, that hurts. But that's also so true, and I love that. You just changed my brain. Yeah. When I was in a workshop, I had submitted a chapter about two characters who hated each other, and the critique group was talking about how they were waiting for this hatred to burst into passion. And I was like, oh God. No. That is never in a million years ever going to happen between these characters. They never think of each other that way, and they were like dude that you have got way too much hate going on here because it's like, it's about to tip over to the other side, bring it down then. And I was like, wow, okay then. I was like, that is not what I wanted my readers to think. Yeah. It's such a gift. I think that's my favorite part of writing is when you share it with someone, and then they give you like this insight, and it just completely shifts things for you, like, Oh my God, that's true. Yes. So this desire to connect with people and share your work with people, I would think that is also a contributing factor for you creating your own podcast, wouldn't you say? Or does that feed your soul in a different way? I think I, I love doing the podcast cuz I love talking to people and meeting people, and I think, definitely, that feeds a part of me. Yeah. I think the one part of me just loves to, wake up early and squirrel away and write, crate things. But I also is a part of me that just needs to connect with people and likes to meet new people. And smiling is my favorite. So the podcast has been such a gift that way is like, I get to make new friends, one new friend a week. It's awesome. So I always recommend to people like, if you're interested in creating a community in a new area, you know you're a mom and you wanna pivot into something else, like seriously a startup podcast. It is a little known secret that almost anyone will come onto your podcast, and it means you get to have cool conversations with people. And in doing so, I really believe that I've elevated my own frequency, you know, and energy, because being around amazing people has made me feel bigger. And so I'm always encouraging people if they want to build out a community in a different area, er, just start a podcast. Just start it. It's so much fun. It's fun. I didn't realize I was starting a podcast when I started my podcast. Mine started off as Facebook Lives. My first 10 episodes not my very first episode, cuz that's my origin episode now. But like episodes two through I think 12 were Facebook Lives. And then after doing those for an hour, because I was just talking to people and talking to other parents who write and then I was like, wow, it's really hard for Facebook people to sit down and watch live for an hour. And I was like oh this is like that whole podcast thing that people have been talking about. And so, yeah. Didn't even realize I was starting a podcast. And that's exactly what you were saying about when you lean into the creativity, right? Because I just leaned into the need to connect with other people like you were saying and have these conversations and realize that I wasn't alone. I'm not the only parent out there who is struggling with identity and making time to write and wanting to, as Melissa Puritis said, take myself off the shelf and finally write my own book. So yeah. Anyway, sorry. That was just, I love that. What are some of your favorite books and some of your kids' favorites and why? Book talk. Book talk. I really do like that Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert. I wanna buy that now, actually. Yeah. And I liked You Are a Badass by Jen Sincero. I feel like that got me first to take myself off the shelf. And Jen Mann has one called Midlife Bites. So those are both non-fiction, but, they really helped me take stock of my life and got me to take myself seriously. And so if you feel like you need a kick in the butt to figure out yourself, then those two books by the Jens are definitely amazing. And then you wanna feel like, ah, I'm so happy, then you read Elizabeth Gilbert's book Big Magic because she'll make you fall in love with the creative process. That's awesome. What about any books that have helped inspire your current writing project? Well, Welcome to the Neighborhood by Lisa Roe is awesome. That's a Mom-Com. It is about a single mom who is just recently remarried and has to deal with new neighbors and a new lifestyle, like bitchy rich neighbors. And also I liked Confessions of a Forty-Something F##k Up by Alexandra Potter, and that one's also comedy. She's not a mom, but it's almost like the opposite, say if about the institution of motherhood and what it's like to be excluded from it. Because that's a really big theme for her is like all of her friends are moms. And that one's really good too. Yeah. Oh, wow. What about your kids? Yeah. My son, he really likes, he's always like the Louis Sachar ones. He is a little bit older now, but definitely there is called Wayside School. Oh. And they're very silly, novels, kid novels chatbooks, set in a school and it's just silliness all around. Okay. Those ones have been very popular in my kids' childhood. Yeah. What about your six year old? Is your six year old a reader or well into books with you? Yeah, she does have to read. She just got her reading ribbon today, so she has to read like a certain number per month. Oh wow. She's always liked Pinklicious. Fancy Nancy. Girly stuff. They're very heteronormative in my family. Gotcha. Okay. I've heard of Fancy Nancy. Read the books. Yeah. What I really like is just like her voice is very strong. And so, that's something that all of us writers strive for, right, is that voice. And she may be like a six year old but she knows who she is. That's fantastic. A previous episode I did with Maria Secoy, she was a middle school English teacher, and so she talks about how parents can use children's books as mentor texts to learn about the writing process. And so I love that you were saying that Fancy Nancy is a good example of a strong voice. And so any parents out there who are reading Fancy Nancy to their kids, pay attention to the strong voice that is used in that book, and that can help fuel your own creativity. Yeah, absolutely. So we have come to the end of our show. Is there any last bit of advice that you would like to offer? Sure, I think just the biggest advice that I would give, and this is to myself even we mentioned importance of finding time to write. And we can say that, but I often find is that there will be excuses or I sh, I shouldn't say excuses, but there will be reasons why when we say that you say no. And my challenge would be to dig deeper into why those no, no nos are coming up. Because I can only speak from my own experience, but definitely the reason that I stopped writing for a long time after I had my my second child, was because I was afraid that there was no point to it, and that I would just be a failure. Because my first book, I got it out yes, but it wasn't like the big financial success that I thought it would be. And so really was I not able to find time for writing, or was I scared that if I put my money and my energy into this thing again it would just be another disappointment. And I think it was actually that. So, Mm. So just, you know, give yourself time to be quiet with that and think about, do I really not have time in my life or is there actually a fear reason that's behind why I'm telling myself this? Do you mind me asking then, how did you get past that fear that was holding you back? I just, like I said before too, like when we're creative people, it doesn't only have to be about writing. And eventually I started doing other things. I did like this animation with my daughter's voice, and put on YouTube. And there's an app called Poshmark, which is in the Canada and the US, and you can sell your clothes on it. And I started writing these like ridiculous postings for my Poshmark listings that were, had nothing to do with the clothing . You're supposed to use the space to describe the clothing you're trying to sell, but I was like, I'm just gonna write a little story. I love that. Yeah, they, I got really great feedback from it, and they were like, you're crazy. I love it. And I, some people were not, they were like, you are crazy. I just wanted to know how big the waste was. And I'm not buying your stupid skirt because you wasted my time. But some people liked it, and that was just slowly through those encouragements of expressing my creativity in other ways I found my way back to writing, and I refueled myself. So yeah, think about your writing, not as I'm gonna become this big multimillion dollar author. Yeah. It's more about the creative process itself and what it does for you and tapping into that creative source and creating something from nothing and recharging yourself. And you know, of course maybe you are writing just for yourself and maybe also you're like, wow, now that I've really opened myself up to just leaning into it and doing it, I can now take it to the next level also. So, Yeah. there. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you so much for joining us on the show. In the show notes, everybody will be able to find your contact information. But what is one last thing that you would like to share? I think, you know, if you're listening to this podcast right now on your phone, open up your iTunes or your Spotify app and check out, These Mums Write, because Erin and i's content and our guests I think are really connected and you might find some other great interviews there. So that would be my call to action is take a moment, now you have your phone. And check out These Mums Write, and it is the Canadian spelling. I did not realize at the time Americans always spell it with an O. Oh. Spell it with a U. And Canada, because we're this a weird mix of British and American, sometimes we spell it with a U. Sometimes we spell it with an O. That's interesting. I didn't know that. Yeah. Haha. Okay. So yes, These Mums Write, with the U. The U. For me it was just exciting to stumble upon your podcast and be like, oh I'm not alone in my corner of the universe. There are more of us. I'm so excited there's more of us because I feel like we all benefit and learn from each other, and so. Yeah. Totally. Well thank you again for joining me on the show. Thanks for having me, Erin. It's been a blast./ You've reached the end of another episode of Parents Who Write. Ready to take action and start writing now? Don't wait! Before you forget, download my free guide, 5 Steps to Help You Start Writing Today. You can find it conveniently located in the show notes. Get it, and start making progress immediately.